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New Life for Dying Churches!

Interview With Kerry Andrews, Kim Kruger, And Mark Rose

Chart: Top 20 Fatest-Growing Assemblies of God Churches

Not all smaller churches are dying; some are thriving, but that may not have always been the case. Many churches that were declining have made a transition. A renewed vision by pastors and congregations and a desire to see these churches grow made the difference.

Enrichment Journal interviewed three pastors who were successful in turning around their churches. Kerry Andrews, pastor of New Heights Assembly of God in York, Nebraska; Kim Kruger, pastor of Malone Assembly of God in Malone, Washington; and Mark Rose, pastor of Victory Road Assembly of God in Norfolk, Nebraska, share their hearts and the process of transforming their churches into vibrant churches that are reaching their communities for Christ.

DESCRIBE THE SITUATION AT YOUR CHURCH WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED

KRUGER: About 30 people were attending the church when we arrived. The average age of the adult congregation was just under 40. Many of them were discouraged because they had been through a rough time. But even in their discouragement, they did have some hope. They had pulled together and were remodeling the church building.

I have been pastoring the church for 10 years. The church just celebrated its 60th anniversary, and we’re averaging a little over 200 in Sunday morning worship.

ROSE: When I came to Norfolk, the church was 57 years old. I am the 19th pastor and the second longest-tenured pastor. I have been here 12 years. We were averaging about 80 on Sunday mornings.

I was embittered about some things that had happened to me as a youth pastor. One day my senior pastor asked, "When are you going to give up and go into ministry?"—Rose

The church had a spirit of smallness, which is pervasive in our community. The community and the church were not progressive. The church had been through a dispute, and several of the people began attending another Pentecostal church in the community.

The church had no vision—no one could state why we were in the community. Now we are averaging 200, the largest the church has ever been. In 1992 we moved into a new 13,000-square-foot facility. We recently paid off our building.

ANDREWS: We came to York in January 1995. The church was in a tiny, rundown building that had been moved a couple of times and had been added onto. Less than 25 people were attending. There was no sense that things could get better. We built a new building and moved into our new facility in October 1997, with about 140 people. We now have approximately 160 people on Sunday morning. We’ve gone from a hopeless, discouraged, despairing attitude to a group of people that are future oriented.

HOW DID YOU KNOW GOD HAD CALLED YOU TO YOUR PLACE OF MINISTRY?

ANDREWS: About 3 years before we came to York, the church had split. It was not a healthy situation. The people at York finally approached the district about closing the church.

We were on staff at a larger church about an hour away from York. When the district contacted us, we thought we could come to York in a support role. Our church had developed lay leadership, and we thought we might bring some of these leaders with us on Sunday morning to help with the various ministries at York. As we explored that possibility, God began to touch our hearts, not just about the church, but about the city of York. We felt God calling us to York.

ROSE: This is my first senior pastorate. I had been a youth pastor and stepped away from that position. I was embittered about some things that had happened to me as a youth pastor. One day my senior pastor asked, "When are you going to give up and go into ministry?"

I looked at him and said sincerely, "Never." The Lord had to deal with me rather severely because of my stubbornness, and I finally surrendered. A year later we were candidating. We had candidated in another church the weekend prior to candidating at Norfolk. We had also been contacted by another church, but we didn’t feel we could say yes to these churches because we sensed God wanted us in Norfolk. But I was still having problems accepting this. Driving to the interview I told my wife, "I hate this place. I don’t want to be here." But as we drove into town, I knew in my spirit that this was where God had called us.

KRUGER: The district sent me to Malone as a last-ditch effort, hoping that something good would happen. It was the kind of situation I needed, because I was not very confident.

A few months later a missionary called and I said, "I cannot guarantee you anything except that if you will come, you will help us more than we will help you."—Kruger

I was a youth pastor in eastern Washington, and my brother was my senior pastor. I thought I would be a youth pastor until the Rapture. After 6 years of being a youth pastor, my brother knew I was ready for a senior pastorate. After a year of his prodding, I called our assistant district superintendent and said, "I am thinking about going to a small church somewhere, but not a home missions church. Do you have anyplace like that?"

He replied, "You should go to Malone."

Years before, my wife and I had determined we would never go to Malone. We knew about the church and what the building looked like. I responded, "No, I won’t go there."

He said, "They’re between pastors right now. How about filling the pulpit for two Sundays?"

I said, "I’ll fill the pulpit, but I’m not candidating. Keep me in mind for someplace else."

When we came the first week to fill the pulpit, my wife and I said to each other as we drove away, "If we come here, it’ll be awesome…this will happen, that will happen, and we can…." Then we’d say, "No, wait a minute; we are not going there. What are we thinking?" We did this for 4 hours.

WHAT STEPS DID YOU TAKE TO BRING THE CHURCH TO WHERE IT IS TODAY?

ANDREWS: One of the first things I did was to get out of the building we were in. This was critical. Change was important. We could have said, "The building shouldn’t matter," but we knew it did. We came in January and by the first week of February we were looking for another place in which to meet. This brought a sense of moving ahead to the people. We had to get that process started, and the most visible, tangible way to do that was to walk away from our building.

As we explored that possibility, God began to touch our hearts, not just about the church, but about the city of York. We felt God calling us to York.—Andrews

ROSE: There were four things we did that took a year to accomplish. First, we began to organize the finances and bring financial integrity to the church. The church had seven different checking accounts and two savings accounts. A different person managed each checking account, and each person kept the checkbook at home. We had $400 in the bank and $1,200 in bills. Each week the board decided which ones they could pay. At the end of our first year, we had $10,000 in the bank and had paid all of our bills.

Second, we began to broaden our vision for missions. I approached the board about having a missions convention, but the board wasn’t interested in spending the $100 for decorations and promotion. I asked if my wife and I could pay for it.

They said, "Sure, you can pay for it, and we’ll come." From that day on, everything in the church started to turn around.

Third, we built a sense of family and unity. We purchased property across the street from the church for parking. We had a workday and tore down the building, house, barn, garage, and cleaned up the property. This built a unity among the 45 people who came that day.

Fourth, we began to participate in community events. Our church was unknown in this community, so we built a float for the community parade. This gave us exposure in the community. People asked, "Is this a new church in town?"

KRUGER: When we came to Malone, the church had financial problems. In fact, there were lost bills. Business owners called and asked, "Are you going to pay this bill?"

I went to the businesses in town and said, "I’m the pastor at Malone Assembly of God. Do we owe you any money?"

The other thing we did was to promote missions. The first time I asked if we could have a missionary at the church, they told me, "No, we’ve got enough problems without that."

I told the church, "There are people hurting worse than you."

A few months later a missionary called and I said, "I cannot guarantee you anything except that if you will come, you will help us more than we will help you." He came, and we gave him $175. The people’s hearts were changed that day. Missions is our passion. We are now supporting 30 missionaries.

HOW DID YOU IMPART VISION?

KRUGER: I preached positive messages and talked about what could happen. One Sunday, I was preaching about the things God was going to do in the future. The people were looking at me thinking, How long are you going to be here?

I said, "You know, you’re all looking at me thinking, How long are you going to be here? I don’t know how long I’m going to be here. That’s up to God. God brought me here, and He will take me away when it’s time. I cannot promise you how long I will be here. But I can promise that what God says in His Word He will do."

After the sermon people said, "That was good preaching, Pastor, but don’t ever read our minds like that again." That was a turning point for the church. They realized their confidence should not be in the pastor, but in God.

ANDREWS: One thing that is lacking in smaller churches, especially churches that have experienced a lot of transition, is security. People are uneasy about what is going to happen. They are uneasy about their future, because they have never had a future. One of the questions we were asked several times during our first year was, "Pastor, are you going to stay?" One of the most significant things we did was to buy a house. This showed some stability. When people feel secure, they are more likely to latch onto something, take a risk, and move with it.

GEORGE BARNA IDENTIFIES SIX QUALITIES OF TURNAROUND PASTORS IN HIS BOOK TURNAROUND CHURCHES. WHAT QUALITIES OF A TURNAROUND PASTOR CHARACTERIZE YOU MOST?

ROSE: I’m a risk taker. I leap before I look. On the way down, I figure out where I’m going to land. My congregation is not like that. I was a distinct shock to most of these people. I’m also a visionary. I think bigger than what I can ever accomplish on my own. I also encourage my people to think the same way because then only God can do it, and only God can get the credit.

KRUGER: I am a team builder. I started coaching basketball at the middle school to show the people I’m a part of this team. We’re going to work together on this. When we were in the middle of remodeling the church, I was on the scaffolding putting on siding and painting.

I am also an encourager. When I came, people were discouraged. Some called or came by and said, "Pastor, I don’t know if I can handle it any longer." One of the first messages I preached was "Pursue, Overtake, Recover All" from 1 Samuel 30. When David went back to Ziklag, he found that the town had been burned and everything was gone. His soldiers were ready to stone him. He asked, "God, what am I going to do?"

God replied, "You’re going to pursue; you’re going to overtake, and you’re going to recover all. As a bonus, you’ll plunder the enemy."

I told the people, "We may be down, but God’s on our side."

WHAT WAS THE DISTRICT’S INVOLVEMENT IN THE REVITALIZATION PROCESS OF YOUR CHURCH?

KRUGER: The district was highly encouraging and supportive. District officials came and spoke at our services, and the congregation thought, They do care about us.

ANDREWS: Prior to 1995, the church had very little district affiliation. The church didn’t take its kids to camp, and pastors did not attend district functions. I came from a church that had a strong district affiliation. I brought that mindset with me.

I helped the people understand that we are part of a much larger Movement than just York, Nebraska. This gave the church the feeling of being connected to something bigger than what they were. This congregation needed to know that they weren’t isolated and alone.

The district augmented my salary for the first year. I could have done it otherwise. But the district support allowed me to concentrate my time and energy on developing the church. This was instrumental in the turnaround.

WHAT PRINCIPLES GUIDED YOU THROUGH THE CHANGE? WAS THERE A DEFINING OR BREAKTHROUGH MOMENT FOR THE CHURCH?

ANDREWS: From the beginning, we decided that nothing was too sacred to be examined critically. We knew this would mean a redefining of ministries, facility needs, and leadership. To turn a church around, particularly a church that is in decline, the leadership structure has to change.

In our church, we had the old group and the new group. There was some resistance within these groups because our church grew quickly our first year. We had difficulty interfacing those two groups. To unite the two groups, I knew we had to empower leaders. We began to remold the leadership structure, finding new places of ministry for existing leaders and creating new places of ministry for new, emerging leaders. Nobody got dropped or lost in the shuffle because everybody had a new job. That was one of those sacred things we knew we had to examine.

The things that received the most resistance weren’t the things I had anticipated. Walking away from the building the church had been in for 60 years was not the stumbling block I had anticipated it might be.

I have been good at resolving conflict. When people walk away from the negotiating table, I have the ability to help them feel important, listened to, and empowered. In a turnaround church, where change is in order, there will be conflict, and good conflict resolution skills are important.

ROSE: My community is distrustful of authority. My church was particularly defensive about that issue, and there had been a disparity between the congregation and the pastor—real enmity and an active hostility at times. One of the reasons for that was the issue of finances. My wife and I purposed we would be transparent. I gave my church my personal budget and said, "Here’s what it costs me to live. Here’s what I spent last year on everything." I publish my salary, I publish my associate’s salary, we publish our benefits—everything. Anyone can see my checkbook. I only have one rule: I’ll show them mine if they will show me theirs. I’ve only had one person challenge me. This has given us immense credibility in the church. It took away the barriers of secrecy that existed.

The second one was that we would do everything with excellence. God is a God of excellence.

KRUGER: A defining moment for our church happened after we had the missionary come. A few months after that, we decided we would tithe to missions from the general fund. At the time we didn’t have enough finances to do anything extra. When we began to tithe, it broke everything loose financially. We just talked it over and I said, "We’re going to do this; it’s a principle of the Word. God says to tithe." We are still tithing to missions, and it’s a huge tithe now. I would encourage any pastor to try this. If it works for individuals, it’ll work for a church.

HOW HAVE YOU HANDLED DISCOURAGEMENT?

ANDREWS: A friend told me, "You can make small changes quickly, but make big changes slowly." Too many pastors get discouraged when they try to kill too many sacred cows at once. They seal their own fate. Like the 12 spies, it’s important to look at the lay of the land…and take a little bit of time.

Pastors can get discouraged when they don’t see change as fast as what they had anticipated and don’t see their goals being met. My solution is to celebrate small victories. I look for people in the congregation who can become heroes. When others view them this way, they have a sense of recognition and ownership. We’ve maintained a lot of momentum that way.

ROSE: What discourages me most is when God has asked me to do the impossible, and I look ahead and think, There’s no way. My discouragement comes from a fear of failure. If I’m looking ahead and I don’t see any way to make something happen, I become discouraged.

I became discouraged when we were building our new building. We had poured the slab, didn’t owe any money, and the building was ready to go up. I was discouraged because we weren’t growing, and the people weren’t doing things I thought they should be doing. The day I spoke to the Lord about leaving, I received two job offers: one secular, and one to take another church that ran about 300 people and had a great missions budget. I knew in my spirit the Lord was asking, "What are you going to do? Are you going to obey Me or are you going to do what you want to do?" So when I get discouraged, many times it comes down to the simple question, "Will you follow Me?"

KRUGER: I grew up on a farm in eastern Washington, so I’m more of a plodder. I plow, and when the plowing is done, I put seed in the ground. Then some months later, a crop comes and I harvest that crop. Because of that background, my wife and I have not been extremely susceptible to discouragement. We know that everything takes time. I do get discouraged, but God has a way of speaking encouragement to me. God has been so faithful to remind me of the good things He has done.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO PASTORS OF SMALL OR DECLINING CHURCHES?

KRUGER: Never give up. God always has an answer.

ROSE: There is a lot of resistance in some churches. You have to bring people along with you. Let them see what’s in your heart. The church isn’t about buildings. Buildings make a difference, but the church is about people, and people move at different paces.

Second, don’t ever give up. Too many pastors stop short of seeing God accomplish what they had envisioned. They walk away just days before the Lord breaks through. So, whatever Jesus asks you to do, do it intentionally. You may not know how to do what He’s asking you to do, but know what He is asking you to do before you take a single step.

Finally, it’s imperative that you know why your church is in your community. This will help keep you from comparing yourself and your church with another pastor and church in the community or in the district, and it will lessen your discouragement.

ANDREWS: I’ve been a pastor of a small church, and I’ve also been the owner of a small business. There is a tendency to play the comparison game. That is one of the greatest traps a smaller-church pastor can fall into. It is one of the greatest sources of discouragement as we look around and see someone doing what, in our estimation, is not much different from what we are doing, and his or her church is doing better than our church. It’s a perception problem.

The greatest advice I heard was from Tommy Barnett years ago at a General Council. He said, "Just because we run buses all through the city of Phoenix doesn’t mean you need to go out and buy a bus." God will tell each one of us specifically what He wants us to do in our particular situation. Don’t lose sight of what the function of the pastorate is—we are called to be shepherds not church builders. If we concentrate on His people, He’ll build our churches.

Top 20 Fatest-Growing Assemblies of God Churches
Sunday AM Worship Attendance

(This list is based on churches whose attendance was less than 99 in 1994.)

*Attendance estimated or carried forward from the previous year.