Brownsville: Paying the Price of Revival
Thomas E. Trask and Wayde I. Goodall recently interviewed John Kilpatrick and Steve Hill concerning the Brownsville revival. They offer pastors rich insights into the workings of revival and encourage them to seek God's outpouring in their own churches.
YOU'VE BEEN IN REVIVAL SINCE FATHER'S DAY 1995. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT REVIVAL?
KILPATRICK: Revival is powerful. To see the power of God in action is awesome. At the same time, it is fragile. Revival has to be pastored because of the human factors involved. If you don't keep a strong hand on it, little things can get out of hand. You have to ask God for constant wisdom.
HILL: We're in our third year, and crowds continue to swarm this place. We have learned that revival is very hard work.
Anyone praying for revival needs to be prepared. I compare it to war. It's like training for battle, and when battle breaks out, there's absolutely no rest.
People ask us all the time, "How are you doing?" We're doing fine-as well as anybody can be doing after almost 3 years of revival. It's grueling hard work.
God never puts revival on the sale table. It'll cost you everything.
TRASK: I'm afraid many of our ministers are not aware of the personal price-the price that has to be paid in prayer prior to revival and then the discipline that has to be exercised during and after revival.
God only comes to those who are hungry and thirsty. He's not interested in appeasing people and just satisfying their whims.
WHAT CAUTIONS WOULD YOU GIVE TO PASTORAL LEADERSHIP WHO SAY: "WE'VE LOST GOOD PEOPLE AS A RESULT OF THE MOVE OF GOD IN OUR CHURCH"?
KILPATRICK: There are a lot of reasons why people leave a church. If you have denominational people in your church, non-Pentecostals, when revival breaks out, some of them may not be ready for a Holy Ghost revival.
Others may leave because of change. They may not like some of the things that take place: speaking in tongues, falling on the floor, shaking under the power of God, crying out by those who have come in demon possessed.
Many in the congregation will be in doubt when revival breaks out in the church. Congregational doubt can be pastored when people have confidence in the pastor.
A lot of people have seen the power of God but have made a decision of unbelief. You can't negotiate unbelief with a fighting spirit. You have to reach out and retain as many as you can.
HILL: Revival stirs up a local church in such a way that regular members are going to have to work and be involved. Brownsville has heard the revival call and is paying the price. Church members give up their seats, work extra hours, are on the prayer team. Many house and feed people who come in from all over the world. They work hard.
A lot of folks want a controlled church and a controlled service. Revival is just not like that. The Early Church wasn't like that. The great revivals of the Awakening were not like that. Revivals are full of commotion, great stirrings, and new people coming in all the time.
HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE PASTORAL LEADERSHIP WHO HAVE BEEN TO BROWNSVILLE AND HAVE BEEN TOUCHED BY THE POWER OF GOD AND WANT THEIR CHURCH TO EXPERIENCE WHAT THEY'VE EXPERIENCED?
KILPATRICK: Brownsville was in prayer for 2 1/2 years before revival broke out. So I had time to prepare the church before the revival came.
When revival comes, it is not business as usual. The Holy Spirit moves, and sinners begin to show up.
If I had started making radical changes and demands on my congregation without preparing them, it would have been chaotic and caused a split. Instead, I talked revival, preached revival, preached holiness, and preached the importance of the Word of God and the ways of God.
We were at an advantage. We were hungry and expectant. So when revival broke forth, it was a combination reward and confirmation that here was what we had been praying for. We said, "This is it. Here we go!"
HILL: Pastors need to be patient with their people when they return to their home church after visiting places where revival is stirring. One thing in their favor is that God wants revival. God's timing is everything.
I've seen pastors and evangelists try to push revival, and that's not how it works. It may start with just the pastor and a small prayer meeting.
Down here, God is moving every day. This is something God is doing.
TRASK: It's critical for leadership to remember that people are sheep that must be led. They are not driven cattle. We can't minister to church members if we drive them away. We have to give God time to work.
HILL: People don't realize how spiritually hungry and thirsty they are. They need a little encouragement. The pastor should go back and talk about revival and prepare the people for what can really happen-just a fresh cool drop of water on their tongue, and it can make them want more.
SHOULD PASTORS EXPECT A DUPLICATION OF BROWNSVILLE TO HAPPEN WHERE THEY ARE?
KILPATRICK: Every church has its own personality. A method that works in Pensacola may not work in other churches.
It wouldn't be wise for someone to come to Brownsville and go home and copy what they've seen and experienced. Churches need to have a time of humbling themselves, praying, and preparing for revival.
If God touches people when they come here, they will go home with a burden to win sinners to Christ. But if they go home with a fighting spirit, they will only cause division.
HILL: There is one thing that can be duplicated. Prayer is fundamental for revival. And prayer teams help. Every pastor should have a group of people who help and pray for folks because the pastor and evangelist can't do it alone.
You can't clone this. A lot of characteristics are unique to Brownsville. In the South, people are accustomed to camp meeting-style services.
We are praying for God to do something so unique and special in other churches that it would dwarf anything we have ever seen at Brownsville.
As D.L. Moody said, "If God be your partner, make your plans large." It could be that even as we are speaking God is planning to move and shake our whole nation. Brownsville is doing its part, but pastors need to remain open to what the Lord wants to do in their part of the country.
HOW SHOULD PASTORS REACT TO THEIR LAITY MAKING PILGRIMAGES TO REVIVALS?
KILPATRICK: Some pastors are turned off by pilgrimages to revival because some of their people come to a place like Brownsville and return home wanting to bring people here and try different things to get their church on fire. These same people may have previously caused church problems or were not supporting the church, but now they are asserting leadership in the church. That could sour a pastor.
From the beginning we have admonished those visiting in two ways. First, we said, "God's touch is wonderful, but go home and come under your pastor. Don't make your pastor feel any kind of pressure to conform to what happens here. God will help your church and your pastor in God's time. Stay where you are, love your pastor, and let God produce fruit in your life."
Second, "Don't put your tithes in the Brownsville offering. Give them in your home church where they belong."
HILL: I believe in pilgrimages, but I don't believe that's the only way to receive from God.
TRASK: I've admonished our ministers: "If you bring your people to God, they won't have to go to Brownsville. They won't have to go to Grand Rapids or Cedar Rapids. God will do it in the local church."
When pastors do the work of the evangelist, people will be saved, and people will be filled with the Spirit.
WHAT HAS BEEN THE MAIN THEME OF YOUR MESSAGES DURING THIS REVIVAL?
HILL: After people come to Brownsville, they write to us commenting on our strong holiness message.
We preach a strong holiness message for people to get the sin out of their lives. When they get the sin out, revival is right at their heels.
If a holiness message was being preached all over the country, then we would also see revival break out. Maybe one of the reasons God is using us as a pilgrimage is for people to hear the holiness message.
This present generation is waiting for somebody to stand up and say, "You can't live like that any more." When we preach that way, teenagers come by the hundreds running to the altar.
KILPATRICK: I need to add a caution. When Steve gets up and preaches against sin, there's glory in his voice. He stands up for holiness with a broken heart. If someone tries to repeat this message without a broken heart for the lost, it can actually repel people.
HILL: People can tell whether or not you are real. It's not something you can turn on or off. Compassion is something that wells up. The lost can feel us suffering with them. John and I are with the people at the end of the service. We hug them. We pray for them. They know we care about them. That is a major prelude of revival. When people start visiting your church, you must love and care for them.
TRASK: That's where the heart of Christ is. If we're going to be His representatives, we have to do as He would do, not just say what He would say.
SPEAK ABOUT THE UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP THE PASTOR AND EVANGELIST CAN HAVE?
HILL: From an evangelist's point of view, I believe God is putting the evangelist and pastor back together again. I would encourage pastors to not do everything on their own. There's only one central headship of the church, and that's the pastor. But there is a place for evangelists in the local church.
John Kilpatrick is my friend. We've known each other for 14 years and sit up on the platform as buddies. If I'm giving the altar call, he's right there with me. We do altar calls together.
It's so healthy. I would encourage pastors to consider having evangelists come and work with them.
KILPATRICK: A pastor/evangelist relationship can't be forced. On Father's Day 1995, I didn't look around for an evangelist to start a revival. None of this was planned. It's been said that Steve and I planned this. Nothing could be further from the truth. All this was totally spontaneous.
I respect and love Steve. It's just like the Jonathan and David situation. We have a unique relationship. But God is not necessarily going to put a pastor and an evangelist together in every situation.
HILL: Neither the pastor nor the evangelist can predict when or where revival is going to break out. Once the meetings begin, both the pastor and the evangelist will know whether or not they are going forward. If new people are not coming in and people are not being changed, then the evangelist and pastor must have the fortitude to turn to one another and say, "This is not working." Then, again, it may work. That's the mystery of it.
WHAT IF THE PASTOR IS NO LONGER LED TO CONTINUE REVIVAL MEETINGS BUT IS PRESSURED BY THE EVANGELIST TO CONTINUE? ADDRESS THIS ISSUE FROM THE EVANGELIST'S STANDPOINT.
HILL: There's nothing to address. It's closed. If a pastor does not want to continue, then I would yield to the pastor, and I would not be divisive. The pastor is in charge.
WHAT "PRICE" DO YOU EACH PAY FOR ONGOING REVIVAL?
KILPATRICK: During the revival, my responsibility is to carry the dung shovel. I deal with things that nobody else can deal with-the hard cases of people that are rebellious or want to cause problems. With a revival this size, I have to deal with problems almost every night.
People also do not understand the magnitude of the Satanic attack. Because we are under such severe attack, there have been many times when we've had to hold each other and pray intensely for one another before we could go out and start the service. When pastors begin to pray for revival, they need to take all this into consideration. You ask, "Is it worth it?" Thank God, it's worth it. But nothing comes without a price. Revival is not easy sailing. Pastors need to understand that.
TRASK: I've heard you say it again and again that the ministry is hard work. One pastor recently told me, "I feel the problem with many of our pastors is one word, L-A-Z-Y. I watch them. They don't want to put in their time. They don't want the responsibility. But you can't have the benefits without the responsibilities."
HILL: John and I are up early every morning and work a full day. Revival raises many questions. We have to deal with thousands of people-letters and phone calls dealing with all kinds of crises.
What do you do, for example, when a young drug addict comes to your church and gets saved? You need a plan when dealing with situations like that. Multiply that by a hundred.
If somebody is not into work, they sure don't need to be into revival.
TRASK: I would trust and pray that our pastors and evangelists are willing to not only pray the price but to pay the price-to work hard because the gospel of Jesus Christ is deserving of our very best.
It's an unparalleled day. There is more hunger, more desire, more excitement. People are being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. I've been in this thing 42 years, and I've never seen anything like this.
KILPATRICK: What makes this unparalleled is that we're seeing the nations of the world show up.
Sometimes we'll have 40 or 50 nations represented in just one particular week. Every Wednesday night we have a "Pray to Nations" night. Everybody from outside the U.S. stands and files by telling their names and where they are from. They will often start to cry and say, "I'm so hungry for God. Our nation is so hungry for God. Oh God, send revival."
The same hunger that is in America for a move of God is also in the world. It looks like the Lord may set the whole earth ablaze with His glory. I believe, like many of our old-time preachers, that when the Lord comes back, He's coming back for a glorious church on fire-ready for Him.
TRASK: God grant it. I'd like to have you both pray for the Lord to use this interview to encourage pastors and their leadership for these days to which God has called the Church.
KILPATRICK: Jesus, I know there is such hunger. Lord, it's tough for pastors. Many of them are stressed out, burned out, and worn out. Dear God, I pray that You'll touch their hearts. Revive them. Resuscitate them. Father, I pray You will bless pastors with wisdom, with hearts of compassion, and eyes of understanding to see their congregations as their friends. Give them a fresh touch of God like they've never had before. In Jesus' name, amen.
HILL: Jesus, as pastors and evangelists read this, I can see their tears dripping on these pages. Lord God, where there seems to be no hope, You give hope. God, where there is emptiness, suddenly You fill the void. Where there is no longer faith-only discouragement, suddenly You renew faith and provide encouragement. As ministers read these pages, I can hear them say: "Maybe, just maybe, God, You're going to do something powerful in me and my home church." Lord, anoint this interview. Bless the Enrichment Journal and use it for Your glory. Amen.
John Kilpatrick is senior pastor of Brownsville Assembly of God, Pensacola, Florida.
Steve Hill is an evangelist ministering at Brownsville Assembly of God, Pensacola, Florida.
Wayde I. Goodall, D.Min., is executive editor of Enrichment Journal and coordinator of the Ministerial Enrichment Office, Springfield, Missouri.